Another Toasted Alternator

[epoxybreath]

Hey Folks,

I've got a '65 D-100 318 just over 70,000 miles. I don't drive it much, only when I need a P-Up. Simple as they are alleged to be, DC electrical systems leave me cold. That being said I am on replacement alternator # 3. I have gotten between 20 minutes and 2 hours of drive time before they stop working. The voltage regulator has been replaced each time, and the ballast resistor too on the last occasion! Is there a possibility of a wiring flaw or a short or ? I am getting a little tired of driving around with a spare battery and a charger. Ideas, Thoughts? All input is appreciated..




Enjoy, Bruce

[robertob]

Crappy parts store rebuilds?

[EGroscup]

Junk battery? bad wire from the B+ terminal? I'm also wondering if there is a bad ground between the engine and body preventing the voltage regulator from "seeing" the correct voltage. Could be lousy rebuilds also. Do you know what is failing in them? Erik

[WD]

Check your pulley alignment. There are a couple different offsets. I know mine sat "proud" of the crank pulley, had to bend the upper bracket back a touch to line stuff up better. Still need to dress the mounting pad on the alternator case with a flat file to get it totally squared up.

[Russ]

Does it still have the original style alternator with one slip on connector and the battery connector? Later models have two slip-on connectors plus the larger battery connector.

[Oldguy]

Didn't I read somewhere that you can use a later model alternator on an early Mopar if you ground one of the field wires? Maybe I'm just getting old and my memory is gone but seems I recollect something along that line. Some one else chime in here please! Mike

[robertob]

Didn't I read somewhere that you can use a later model alternator on an early Mopar if you ground one of the field wires? Maybe I'm just getting old and my memory is gone but seems I recollect something along that line. Some one else chime in here please! Mike

yep. Or just get the newer style regulator

[Oldguy]

Okay. Went out to my scrap pile and took a couple of pics showing the difference between the alternators. I THINK the square back is the early one. Anyway you should be able to tell if you have the correct one for you application. Good luck! Mike

[WD]

Square back is 70 and newer. That kind would not fit my 69's stock mounts without hitting other components.

[tastypinecone]

The easiest solution I found to fixing these these problems is switching to a one-wire alternator.If you do not have the money to go out and buy the fancy chrome one from Summit you can do what I did. I removed my stock alternator, took it to my local alternator shop and had them convert it to a one wire, I don't remember what it cost but I am thinking around $50 and that came with a one year warranty. I have been driving my truck about 4 to 5 times a week for the last several months and have had no problems; such as head light dimming at stop lights when my foot is on the brake while the heater and wipers are running. The nice thing is you do not have to change any of the wiring just bolt on the out-put wire and go, unless you have bad or weak wires then I would bypass the harness and wire the alternator out-put directly to the battery. I have seen guys retrofit their Chrysler products with the GM one wire alternators but you will have to do some minor fabrication and it doesn't look as original. The plus side to going the GM route is cost you can find one wire GM alternators all day at the wrecking yard for 20 to 30 bucks and the wrecking yard will usually give you some type of warranty or a guarantee that it will work.

[WD]

You found a shop that would touch a round case? Amazing, I got thrown out of every shop I took mine into, and it just needed a dide or two replaced. Each one of them said the same thing "Buy a Chevy alternator, the Dodge round cases aren't worth the headaches".

I'm inclined to replace mine next time it goes out with a Power Gen (one wire alternator in a generator case). If nothing else than to make the purists freak out...

Considering that my driver side door delaminated this week...

[EGroscup]

Oldguy, you are correct. Grounding one field lead will let you use the earlier style voltage regulator no problem. I have found that most rebuild shops are worthless, if your alt needs attention, replacing the diodes and brushes yourself is easy. That one wire conversion with the voltage regulator from who knows what scabbed on to the outside looks hokey. Good luck repairing that if the shop that did it ever closes. The factory stuff works well, mixing it up with brand X and or aftermarket stuff doesn't make sense. How much simpler can you get than one wire from the voltage regulator and one to the batt.? Mopar did a pretty good job engineering that I think. Having the regulator remote mounted is a huge bonus in my book. If you want a Delco charging system, buy a Chevy. E.

[WD]

Have one, 85 C10 Silverado with a short wide bed and a 4.3 liter V6. 23-26 mpg. Better mileage than the 2.3L/5spd Ranger, the 95 Outback, the 72 Super Beetle or the 218 flattie (long deceased) I ran in my 49 Dodge truck. 3x better mileage than my 318 powered D100.

If it wasn't shaved down dog's butt ugly (and vanilla ice cream boring) I'd drive it.

[Hobcobble]

Each one of them said the same thing "Buy a Chevy alternator, the Dodge round cases aren't worth the headaches".

Sounds like you've stumbled onto a host of sub-par shops.
John

[WD]

Wouldn't surprise me. Western Washington wasn't exactly vintage vehicle parts friendly. Here in TN, I can go to the farm co-op or Tractor Supply and walk out 5 minutes later with everything I need for even my 60+ year old 6v electrical system.

But my 230 flathead is still getting a 12v alternator, truck needs a new harness, Swepty isn't street safe, so the new harness for it goes in the 49. I've got a stock Autolite made 1957 Plymouth generator (came with the engine), but...

[tastypinecone]

I have found that most rebuild shops are worthless

I have found that they work great for me in many different applications, I have had starters, alternators, servos, power window regulators, generators, etc rebuilt with no issues. You must leave in a region where there is no skilled labor. Should he go to the parts house and buy a new Chinese or Mexican alternator if he can't rebuild his own or should he keep his money in his community and have it rebuilt?

That one wire conversion with the voltage regulator from who knows what scabbed on to the outside looks hokey.

Solid state voltage regulator made by Borg-Warner same company that makes the original equipment mechanical points external style regulator. The regulator is barely visible when the alternator is mounted.

Good luck repairing that if the shop that did it ever closes.

Luna has been in business since 1951, hardly fly-by-night http://www.lunaindustriesinc.com/mechanics/index.html
Even if they did go out of business and the unit fails I'm not really out that much money.

The factory stuff works well

Sure thats why everyone love's Mopars Ammeter design because it works so well. The single reservoir brake system also works well until one of the wheel cylinders blow out during heavy emergency braking.

mixing it up with brand X and or aftermarket stuff doesn't make sense

So you only use mopar fluids and Polyglas tires on your truck?

How much simpler can you get than one wire from the voltage regulator and one to the batt.?

One wire from the alternator to the Battery is simpler, You forgot to mention two other wires; the field wire and the ground wire from the external regulators body to the engine block. I think that comes to three wires which is harder to install than one wire.

Mopar did a pretty good job engineering that I think.

Mopar didn't, that is why they changed the design of regulators (mechanical to solid state).

Having the regulator remote mounted is a huge bonus in my book.

Because you like more wiring and grounding issues?

If you want a Delco charging system, buy a Chevy. E.

So with your logic when the leaded gas valve seats go out in his heads he shouldn't replace them with harder seats he should go out and buy a newer truck made for running unleaded fuel or I guess he should get soft OEM valve seats put back in the heads and use a lead additive because that would make more sense in "your book". I am sorry to break this bad news to you but Dodge didn't do everything perfect, it is not a crime to borrow an idea from another automobile manufacturer (unless you are going to sell it as your own idea).

EGroscup running a one-wire alternator is not for everyone, I argue that it is more reliable not more original. The only positive thing you said was to check the ground to the voltage regulator/ b+ terminal, not bad but that usually fries the voltage regulator before the alternator. Instead of criticizing my post you should have spent your energy and time coming up with a viable solution to solve the problem at hand. Sorry if my post offended the "purists" out there, I was just trying to offer a low cost and easy solution to his problem. Disclaimer: If you run a one-wire set up you will probably not get a score of 100 at Pebble Beach Concoursd'Elegance.

[EGroscup]

Cool that you have a good rebuild shop, we used to but their quality and service has gone downhill terribly. Keeping the money local is a much better way to go, but when they start costing you money, sorry economics force us elsewhere. I prefer the external regulator mount for serviceability and ease of repair. Grounding problems? not yet. Ammeter problems? not yet. Mopar didn't do everything perfectly, but considering that even the newest Swepty is now 40 years old, they did a pretty good job for something that most likely was not expected to be in service 40-50 years later. Don't forget the technology available to the mass market was a bit different than today. What really annoys me is the number of vehicles I see that have been butchered because some guy doesn't understand what is happening and starts hacking wires. The problem is still there and now they have created 6 more. Usually going back to stock is where I start when faced with this. Sounds like you have a better handle on things than most, kudos for that.

[Russ]

If I went to a shop and was told that the Mopar alternators were no good I would exit the premises as quick as possible and never go back there again. Obviously they aren't very knowledgeable about alternators.

Mopar alternators are quite easy to repair if they do need it and the brushes can be changed without even loosening the alternator belt. I think the reason many guys think that GM alternators ar better than Mopar is because they are Chevy lovers and don't really know anything about Mopar electronics. I've had many Mopars since 1960 when the alternator first appeared (several years before GM and Ford) , and I've had virtually no trouble with them. Definitely no more than my GM and Ford friends had.

I think the Delco alternators are good, just don't think they are any better or less trouble than Mopars. With the Mopar alternator you can determine whether the problem is the regulator or alternator and replace what you need. If it's just brushes that's about a five minute job and cost about $5 at NAPA, and the regulator is available most anywhere. The regulator is internal to the Delco and you will have to totally dis-assemble it to replace either the regulator or brushes. Most people won't or can't do this so they just replace the whole alternator. Since it's not common to do it the parts are not often stocked at corner parts houses.

[WD]

I've had gens and alternators fail on all the big 3, plus a few orphan makes. The most spectacular failures have been 70s Ford trucks, late 60s Pontiacs and Mopars. And I've had more 2 field wire Mopar failures than single field failures.

Unfortunately they always seem to break down at a time when I have no spare time to overhaul them. So I swap them. Again unfortunately, GM are the easiest/cheapest to get hold of in a hurry. AND fit my alternator brackets.

My truck won't be winning any awards, anywhere. Unless the local "traditional" shows allow farm trucks. Mine won't be street legal again for quite awhile. Not even going to register it when the tags expire in September.

[rogerr]

The one wire setup is only any good for tractors and other applications where the alternator just charges the battery. There is a reason no production car has a One Wire.

It is a good thing to learn to rebuild your own alternators. You need to have a puller, a press for bearings and a big soldering iron on some. Other than that, a good local shop should be your source. My recommendation, call the places that work on old British cars and see if there is someone in town or regional that rebuilds Lucas alternators and starters. Or a boat yard and tell them you have a 24V or 32/36V boat alternator you need rebuilt. The places that actually understand electrical theory and can think through problems do this kind of stuff with no problems and that's where you want to go.

The BEST alternator ever built for cars is the 10DN or 10SI Delco, to be honest. The flat Mopar alternator we all know and love isn't that bad but if you are not attached to its appearance a Delco, properly built will make more power and last longer.

As someone said, flaky grounds cause no end of trouble. As well, a dead battery or a starter pulling way too much current is an alternator killer. When I worked Ground Support for the airline, we changed the starter, the battery and the alternator all at the same time. We just could not have failures on the ramp. This was true of vehicles, tugs, start carts, you name it.