I finally got my frame donor truck

[mopardwh]

I have no pictures until I develop my film. Do people still do that?

No, they don't.

Must be that time of year, I just dragged home an 85 short bed for a future frame swap. It's gonna be a parts storage bin for now though.

[ufo]

Using the front clip method is looking to be a better option.

[nfury8]

As Fosh mentions, use a grinder to cut the heads off the rivets.
I used a 4-1/2" cutting wheel to quickly cut most of the head off,
then switched to a grinding wheel to smooth it flush with the frame.
Then I used a large punch and a 3lb sledge hammer to knock them
out. I was able to knock all 18 out of the trans cross member in under
an hour. And got the 8 rivets out of the center cross member in 20 minutes.

If you don't have a grinder, a cheapo $20 4-1/2" will be enough to get
the job done. However I have found it is worthwhile to spend a little extra
on the wheels. Lowes sells the DeWalt discs in 5 packs for a good price.

If those 2 center cross members are built like this one, behind the
transfer case, they can probably be flipped. I was able to remove that
one without cutting it. So it could be flipped. OR you could also remove
the lower braces and drop the cross member, to rest on the lower part of
the frame rail, and not use the braces.

As for the section above the axle- I would consider cutting the hump out
and welding in flat sections, like a Swept frame. This would be easier than
clipping in a front section, I think.

[soopernaut]

There have been some good suggestions. I will definitely get a grinder and some cutoff wheels. The sweptline frame has one fewer crossmember under the bed so they probably all aren't really needed. I have a gas tank that will be in the way of lowering 1 crossmember to the bottom frame rail but I'll have to check the other crossmember. I'm not too worried about them but the frame above the axle will be harder to deal with. I don't have a welder for this project so for any cutting and welding I will have to get somebody else to do it. I was thinking that since there is no weight on the back of the frame and the engine is still on it it probably isn't sitting level. I will have to remeasure with a straightedge to see how much the frame actually sticks up above the axle.

[nfury8]

Unless you absolutely know nothing about welding and have no interest to learn,
or know someone that can do it cheap, you should give one some real consideration.
Specially on a project like this. There are probably going to be dozens of more
situations that will call for a welder. I have used my MIG about as much as my air
compressor on the crew cab, and not just for body work. Wish I had bought it
years ago!

[Hobcobble]

Unless you absolutely know nothing about welding and have no interest to learn,
or know someone that can do it cheap, you should give one some real consideration.
Specially on a project like this. There are probably going to be dozens of more
situations that will call for a welder. I have used my MIG about as much as my air
compressor on the crew cab, and not just for body work. Wish I had bought it
years ago!

Good point. I picked up a MillerMatic 135 a few years ago. At the time, I had only done
a very small amount of stick welding. I'm no where near being able to weld outer body
panels but for general purpose stuff.... it was worth every penny. You could probably
find a nice used one for cheap.... but definitely get one equipped to use CO2/Argon.
Some good makes to look at are Hobart, Lincoln & Miller.

I use my Oxy/Acetylene torches a lot as well. A good general purpose gauge, hose &
torch set can be had new for about $140. A local welding supply shop can set you up
with the gas cylinders.
John

[OregonDodgeboy]

I was beginning to wonder how this project was coming along. :-)

I agree with Fosh, making the bed line up with the cab is easier than the other way around. Here's my :

If the welding or fab work is beyond you or a buddy, try your local welding schools or community colleges. Often times they will do it for a lower price, especially if they have extra time to work with. A high school metal shop may work, or possibly a retired welder looking for something to do. If you also throw in the fab of the cab mounts, you might save even more, who knows. After reading that article, it seems pretty straight forward to raise the bed floor. But obviously you need some room, tools and a couple of extra hands.

Another thought is to just lop a hole in the floor. Once it fits, cover it with metal like you typically see, then fab up panels for a raised floor. Leave the original floor there, creating a kind-of hidden compartment. Like they had on the Rancheros and ElCaminos. You might also be able to build a custom gas tank in there too. After some searching, I found that a gallon is 231 cubic inches. So if this tank is 60" wide, 36" long and 6" high, (rough measurements used only for an example), the tank holds about 56 gallons of fuel. (L x W x H / 231) The front compartment could be for fuel, the rear could be for tools or whatever.

One last thing (in regard to wheelbase); I'd look to modify the bed to line up before moving suspension mounts. I recently saw how to move a wheel opening on a quarter panel of a car, and it's not as daunting of a task as one might think. Even easier on a truck I'd think.


This is where I am realizing how easy I got off doing my conversion by building a flatbed on it.

[soopernaut]

I'm trying to make this project simple. It is my first project vehicle and I was thinking this would be the easiest way to have a decent steering and braking truck. I'm determined to find a way to make this work without cutting the frame or bed. We will see.

I did take some welding classes in the past and I probably could do the work if I had a welder. I would prefer somebody with more experience because this is a structural area. The guy I bought the truck from or one of his friends could probably do it for free or close to free but if I can avoid it I will. Also the bed floor is near perfect and so is most of the bed. It would be a shame to cut it. Maybe I will have to raise the bed and lower the suspension a tad.

[OregonDodgeboy]

Yeah, I understand not wanting to slice a cherry piece of metal. If you can get the bed attached in alignment with the wheel, you could always add a little sheet metal "extention" to the bedside that would take up the gap between it and the cab. Probably much easier to do anyway.

As for the other part, if the body ends up sitting a little high on the frame you could always throw on some 24's and just fill the wheel wells with tire.

[soopernaut]

It looks like I'm going to have to mount the bed like the one on this truck. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Po ... dZViewItem

Maybe I'll take a trip to the salvage yard and start measuring other vehicles.

[slick]

I'm just throwing out ideas, but here's my . I think if you could flip the 2 crossmembers that would allow the bed to sit directly on the frame. You may have to cut the bed out a little where the frame kicks up over the axle. I think if you did this it would work. I was just going to use some polyurethane bushings on top of the frame. I would get the bed on there to see where it's going to sit then build your cab mounts so that the cab will line up with the bed For my cab mounts I cut and welded my 67 mounts to the 78 mounts to save a little cost. The top picture is what I cut out for the bed to fit without flipping the crossmembers. The second pic is the 67 cab mount welded to the 78. The third pic is with the crossmembers flipped, but now that I look at it the flipped crossmembers might not work with the truck at stock height, also the original late model tank won't fit back either

[OregonDodgeboy]

Those are some interesting (read scarry) mounts. The one question I have would be if the body is lifted also. This would make the bed mounts need to be taller of course.

I guess that what we might need to do is to get the frame level. Not sure how to do that exactly, but I wonder if a body shop would have the measurements? If they fix frames, they should surely have the stock dimentions and be able to tell you how to make it level. But one it is level, a simple string level run down the frame could give you an idea how much body lift it would take to get it right. This was my plan A;.... plan B was to wing it and just throw the mounts on and start shimming with wood until It looks right and then build some metal mounts. Looks like this guy stopped after the wood shims.

And if I understand correctly, the frame raises higher (over the rear axle area) than the crossmembers, in relation to the frame. So given that, why would you need to move them? Your bed can go no lower than the highest point of the frame unless you modify something.

[ufo]

Another thing that's messing up the swap is the bed depth.Sweptline 20"-78 ,19".Your an inch taller right off the bat.

[ufo]

Here's another idea to toss around.
Instead of flipping the crossmembers why not replace them with home built flat ones.
How much difference is there between the two as far as the kickup over the axle?
If the swept box sits flat there would be no need for the wood blocks,so there must be some kickup.

[soopernaut]

I did measure using a straight edge placed along the frame rail where the front of the bed is and extended it off the side to where the rear axle is. I still couldn't get an exact measurement because the straight edge would flex slightly. I came up with a rise of 4.75"-5.0" above the rear axle. This is quite a bit higher than the crossmembers. The Sweptline frame has a much smaller rise and it also has a narrower frame height in that area. The sweptline frame goes from 6" high down to 4" high above the rear axle. The 77 frame stays the same height all the way back.

[Hobcobble]

If the Sweptline frame is the same width [or slightly wider], perhaps you could use
crossmembers from it for your Life Style frame..... just my That or get
some nice 1/4" C-channel steel and fashion your own.
John

[soopernaut]

If the Sweptline frame is the same width [or slightly wider], perhaps you could use
crossmembers from it for your Life Style frame..... just my That or get
some nice 1/4" C-channel steel and fashion your own.
John

The crossmembers aren't really the problem though. Keeping the ones already on the frame will only put me 1" higher than I am now. That isn't a big deal. The frame rails above the rear axle will put me up another at least another 2 inches.

I wonder how much of a kick up the Ford frames have. I'm guessing they have the same width because the bumpers and brackets seem to swap over. I don't care what kind of frame or crossmember I have to use as long as I can keep the body uncut and use a Mopar drivetrain. I looked at the 97 and up Dakota and the frame looks a lot different so I think staying in the 70s or 80s would probably put me closest unless I find a crossmember.

[soopernaut]

Here is what I found out so far. The Ford frame looks like it will work. A guy I work with has a 78 F150 4x4 and I did some looking at it. The bed appears to sit on the frame rails and the kick up isn't very high. There are more problems though. In 73 Ford went to a 133" wheelbase on regular cab/long bed trucks so that would be 5" too long. 64 had a 128" wheelbase, 65-66 had a 129" wheelbase and 67-72 had a 131" wheelbase. They didn't have front disc brakes on half tons until 73 so I'll have to find out if they will swap to earlier years. I'll have to check out the steering too and see what was used over the years. I may also look and see if there is an aftermarket front IFS that will bolt into a F100/F150. Maybe it would work on a Dodge frame too.

I haven't had time to get to the salvage yard and look at other vehicles yet. I did see a 69 Chevy in a parking lot and the frame is way different.

[OregonDodgeboy]

Well, if you go with the Ford frame, you may end up with the twin I beam suspension. They are tough but I hear that they have tire wear issues due to the changing camber as well as wheel bearing issues. That's about all I know about them. If you want to take that out, I'm sure that someone makes a crossmember to allow you to go Mustang 2. Though the parts are getting pricey due to their popularity. The other thought would be to go to the Crown Vic IFS I posted about in another thread not that long ago. About as nice as it gets, and pretty cheap really.

[soopernaut]

The Ford idea isn't going to work. I would need a second donor truck or front axle for the disc brake swap. I'm already out of room unless I start filling my yard. I had time to go to the salvage yard today but they didn't have time for me. They close at 5pm. I did get in and looked around for a while. I looked at a late 80s Cougar,which would be similar to the Crown Victoria swap. It looks do-able. I also looked at a 73-87 Chevy truck and that frame looks like it might work. I'll have to do some more reasearch on these trucks and maybe find one to measure. I did have time to take some rough measurements and the rear of the frame is much wider than my Dodge frames. That could be a problem if I want to bolt up my 8.75 rear axle. It probably wouldn't be a huge deal to move the spring pads. I might just have to modify the 77 frame I already have. If Ford and GM made frames that don't have a huge kick up in the rear, why didn't Dodge?

While visiting a Ford forum I found a series of articles about crossmember/frame stub swaps. http://sweptline.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17054